High resolution ADC vs amplifiers









up vote
3
down vote

favorite












I have started a design for work where I want to interface some sensors, (strain gauge, bridge, thermocouple, low voltage stuff) to a national instruments sbRIO card. This card has analog inputs built in as well as DIO. The sbRIO can measure down to +- 1v and 16 bits, but in my experience thats not quite good enough for thermocouples and strain gauges where you're looking at <100 mV. We were going to already be making a "mezzanine" card with some other interface circuitry so I was going to add on some circuitry that could handle these lower voltages.



A while ago I had found a 32 bit ADC with SPI interface and I've been looking for an excuse to play with one and thought this might be a good fit. (https://www.protocentral.com/analog-adc-boards/1005-protocentral-ads1262-32-bit-precision-adc-breakout-board-0642078949630.html). It has a built in gain amplifier, and a few other bells and whistles.



My question is for any hardware designers out there is this. Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate? I appreciate any insight you might be able to give me. Thanks for your time!










share|improve this question







New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • "not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
    – TimWescott
    yesterday










  • what is the resolution requirement?
    – aaaaaa
    yesterday










  • How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
    – analogsystemsrf
    23 hours ago














up vote
3
down vote

favorite












I have started a design for work where I want to interface some sensors, (strain gauge, bridge, thermocouple, low voltage stuff) to a national instruments sbRIO card. This card has analog inputs built in as well as DIO. The sbRIO can measure down to +- 1v and 16 bits, but in my experience thats not quite good enough for thermocouples and strain gauges where you're looking at <100 mV. We were going to already be making a "mezzanine" card with some other interface circuitry so I was going to add on some circuitry that could handle these lower voltages.



A while ago I had found a 32 bit ADC with SPI interface and I've been looking for an excuse to play with one and thought this might be a good fit. (https://www.protocentral.com/analog-adc-boards/1005-protocentral-ads1262-32-bit-precision-adc-breakout-board-0642078949630.html). It has a built in gain amplifier, and a few other bells and whistles.



My question is for any hardware designers out there is this. Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate? I appreciate any insight you might be able to give me. Thanks for your time!










share|improve this question







New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.



















  • "not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
    – TimWescott
    yesterday










  • what is the resolution requirement?
    – aaaaaa
    yesterday










  • How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
    – analogsystemsrf
    23 hours ago












up vote
3
down vote

favorite









up vote
3
down vote

favorite











I have started a design for work where I want to interface some sensors, (strain gauge, bridge, thermocouple, low voltage stuff) to a national instruments sbRIO card. This card has analog inputs built in as well as DIO. The sbRIO can measure down to +- 1v and 16 bits, but in my experience thats not quite good enough for thermocouples and strain gauges where you're looking at <100 mV. We were going to already be making a "mezzanine" card with some other interface circuitry so I was going to add on some circuitry that could handle these lower voltages.



A while ago I had found a 32 bit ADC with SPI interface and I've been looking for an excuse to play with one and thought this might be a good fit. (https://www.protocentral.com/analog-adc-boards/1005-protocentral-ads1262-32-bit-precision-adc-breakout-board-0642078949630.html). It has a built in gain amplifier, and a few other bells and whistles.



My question is for any hardware designers out there is this. Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate? I appreciate any insight you might be able to give me. Thanks for your time!










share|improve this question







New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











I have started a design for work where I want to interface some sensors, (strain gauge, bridge, thermocouple, low voltage stuff) to a national instruments sbRIO card. This card has analog inputs built in as well as DIO. The sbRIO can measure down to +- 1v and 16 bits, but in my experience thats not quite good enough for thermocouples and strain gauges where you're looking at <100 mV. We were going to already be making a "mezzanine" card with some other interface circuitry so I was going to add on some circuitry that could handle these lower voltages.



A while ago I had found a 32 bit ADC with SPI interface and I've been looking for an excuse to play with one and thought this might be a good fit. (https://www.protocentral.com/analog-adc-boards/1005-protocentral-ads1262-32-bit-precision-adc-breakout-board-0642078949630.html). It has a built in gain amplifier, and a few other bells and whistles.



My question is for any hardware designers out there is this. Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate? I appreciate any insight you might be able to give me. Thanks for your time!







amplifier adc thermocouple






share|improve this question







New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question







New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question






New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked yesterday









Mark Moser

161




161




New contributor




Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Mark Moser is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











  • "not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
    – TimWescott
    yesterday










  • what is the resolution requirement?
    – aaaaaa
    yesterday










  • How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
    – analogsystemsrf
    23 hours ago
















  • "not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
    – TimWescott
    yesterday










  • what is the resolution requirement?
    – aaaaaa
    yesterday










  • How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
    – analogsystemsrf
    23 hours ago















"not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
– TimWescott
yesterday




"not quite good enough for thermocouples"... How would you do the cold junction compensation?
– TimWescott
yesterday












what is the resolution requirement?
– aaaaaa
yesterday




what is the resolution requirement?
– aaaaaa
yesterday












How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
– analogsystemsrf
23 hours ago




How stable must your system be? Can you provide power clean enough to satisfy expensive opamps? Are you willing to PAY for expensive 5 PPM Vishay resistors? Or perform a calibration each time?
– analogsystemsrf
23 hours ago










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
6
down vote













32-bit ADC is misleading. Even at it's highest gain, the noise peak is roughly 60nV. A 5V 24bit ADC is 5/2^24 or 29nV per a bit. So the bottom 9 bits of the 32 bit ADC will be noisy. There are less noisy delta sigma ADC's on the market.



enter image description here




Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual
channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple
amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate?




Depends on what your objective is, if it's lowest noise, an ADC with a mux will always be noisier than a standalone ADC, because the transistors from the MUX are noise sources.



As far as your amplifier question, again it depends on what the requirements for the project is. But there will be better control over how much noise is in your circuit if you use analog amplifiers, it will also cost more. The ADC also has many digital filters, so instead of using analog sensors and calculating the bandwidth you can change it with software.






share|improve this answer



























    up vote
    6
    down vote













    This isn't quite an answer, but rather an anecdote.



    High-bit ADC are quite the nifty thing. Great resolution, along with high dynamic range, take away many signal-chain concerns.



    I built a system for biopotentials with a 32-bit chip. Signal quality was excellent, as all my calculations told me they would be, with only some minimal amplification and anti-alias filtering. That said, my data was riding on what seemed to be an *enormous" square wave that I didn't notice during my prototyping. It had me quite baffled for a while.



    Working backward, though, I figured out that the magnitude of the square wave was truly tiny.



    Eventually, I had the box where this thing lived open, and I noticed serendipitously that when the programmer on microcontroller dev board that I was using wasn't USB-enumerated, that an LED flashed perfectly in time to my mystery square wave. That was making something sag, in the microvolt range, that was just huge in my 32-bit signal. It wasn't present during prototyping, because my on-board programmer was enumerated! Those bastards!!!!! The problem was resolved by removing the current-limiting resistor on the LED.



    Why was this frustrating? Well, for the first time in my life, I didn't amplify enough for me to actually see the signals I was working with on an oscilloscope!!! I didn't do it, because I didn't have to.



    I suppose the point is that selecting a 32-bit ADC created a funny opacity in my signal chain that I had to learn about the hard way. This was much like my early experiences with microcontrollers, where you can't just peek inside and know what's happening.



    Long story short, high-bit ADCs are a valuable tool that makes analog design a breeze. That said, they're a tool, like any other, and the learning curve can be a challenge. Fortunately, in my case, I managed to ID my issue. I can tell you, I was under some real time pressure, working under subcontract to a medical device company. I was under pretty substantial stress for a few days, until I found my problem. There's a time and a place to start using new tools, and a time and a place for the tried and true.






    share|improve this answer





























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      You are missing a very important consideration on any design of this sort: firmware/software/drivers.



      Using an existing DAQ card provides you with all of that and allows you to concentrate your resources on the problem itself via high-level abstractions and not on the technical details of the interfacing.



      Besides, I really doubt you can get your analog noise to a level in which 32 bits or 24 bits would make any difference.






      share|improve this answer



























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        Years ago I performed silicon evaluation of a 22 bit ADC. I expected to learn, to be surprised, to be puzzled. I was.



        1) your hand or face or body emits heat, and silicon junctions CLOSER to the heat source will be warmer; two nearby diodes would drift apart by 500 microvolts, and you'll experience about 60 seconds of settling time to the new offset voltage; given 0.1 meter of copper has 114 seconds of thermal time constant, we can expect heat flows to be a constant problem; I'd designed those 2 diodes onto the Eval PCB, to examine the heating by my face; one diode partially shaded the other diode, to ensure a heat flux difference.



        2) dielectric absorption of capacitors showed up; input filtering using RC lowpass, to explore the ADC's noise floor, showed 2 or 3 minutes of settling; when shorted briefly then opened up, nearly a millivolt of stored charge would slowly appear



        3) the resistance of 1 ounce/foot^2 copper foil is 0.000500 ohms per square, for any size square; 1milliAmp thru a square will generate 500 microVolts of error; plan on using Finite_element modeling to design your PCBS at the 32 bit level.



        4) 1 amp of 60Hz pure sinusoid (no spikes) at 1 meter from 10cm by 1cm loop, will induce this voltage onto your PCB



        Vinduce = 2e-7 * Area/Distance * dI/dT



        Vinduce = 2e-7 *10cm*1cm/1meter * 377



        Vinduce = 2e-7 * 1e-3 * 377



        Vinduce = 1e-10 * 754 = 75 nanoVolts



        5) those "quiet" digital interface pins, with either a 1 or a 0 level, are still buzzing with 200 or 500 milliVoltsPP of MCU rail noise; how close can you let a digital interface trace get to the 32-bit signals, given the MCU trash has pseudo-random (program dependent) patterns, and cannot be trusted to "average out" ?






        share|improve this answer






















          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
          );
          );
          , "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
          return StackExchange.using("schematics", function ()
          StackExchange.schematics.init();
          );
          , "cicuitlab");

          StackExchange.ready(function()
          var channelOptions =
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "135"
          ;
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
          createEditor();
          );

          else
          createEditor();

          );

          function createEditor()
          StackExchange.prepareEditor(
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: false,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: null,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader:
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          ,
          onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          );



          );






          Mark Moser is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function ()
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f405934%2fhigh-resolution-adc-vs-amplifiers%23new-answer', 'question_page');

          );

          Post as a guest






























          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes








          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          6
          down vote













          32-bit ADC is misleading. Even at it's highest gain, the noise peak is roughly 60nV. A 5V 24bit ADC is 5/2^24 or 29nV per a bit. So the bottom 9 bits of the 32 bit ADC will be noisy. There are less noisy delta sigma ADC's on the market.



          enter image description here




          Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual
          channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple
          amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate?




          Depends on what your objective is, if it's lowest noise, an ADC with a mux will always be noisier than a standalone ADC, because the transistors from the MUX are noise sources.



          As far as your amplifier question, again it depends on what the requirements for the project is. But there will be better control over how much noise is in your circuit if you use analog amplifiers, it will also cost more. The ADC also has many digital filters, so instead of using analog sensors and calculating the bandwidth you can change it with software.






          share|improve this answer
























            up vote
            6
            down vote













            32-bit ADC is misleading. Even at it's highest gain, the noise peak is roughly 60nV. A 5V 24bit ADC is 5/2^24 or 29nV per a bit. So the bottom 9 bits of the 32 bit ADC will be noisy. There are less noisy delta sigma ADC's on the market.



            enter image description here




            Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual
            channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple
            amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate?




            Depends on what your objective is, if it's lowest noise, an ADC with a mux will always be noisier than a standalone ADC, because the transistors from the MUX are noise sources.



            As far as your amplifier question, again it depends on what the requirements for the project is. But there will be better control over how much noise is in your circuit if you use analog amplifiers, it will also cost more. The ADC also has many digital filters, so instead of using analog sensors and calculating the bandwidth you can change it with software.






            share|improve this answer






















              up vote
              6
              down vote










              up vote
              6
              down vote









              32-bit ADC is misleading. Even at it's highest gain, the noise peak is roughly 60nV. A 5V 24bit ADC is 5/2^24 or 29nV per a bit. So the bottom 9 bits of the 32 bit ADC will be noisy. There are less noisy delta sigma ADC's on the market.



              enter image description here




              Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual
              channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple
              amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate?




              Depends on what your objective is, if it's lowest noise, an ADC with a mux will always be noisier than a standalone ADC, because the transistors from the MUX are noise sources.



              As far as your amplifier question, again it depends on what the requirements for the project is. But there will be better control over how much noise is in your circuit if you use analog amplifiers, it will also cost more. The ADC also has many digital filters, so instead of using analog sensors and calculating the bandwidth you can change it with software.






              share|improve this answer












              32-bit ADC is misleading. Even at it's highest gain, the noise peak is roughly 60nV. A 5V 24bit ADC is 5/2^24 or 29nV per a bit. So the bottom 9 bits of the 32 bit ADC will be noisy. There are less noisy delta sigma ADC's on the market.



              enter image description here




              Would I be better suited to using amplifiers for each individual
              channel rather than using this unit of an ADC? ie using thermocouple
              amplifiers and bridge amplifiers where appropriate?




              Depends on what your objective is, if it's lowest noise, an ADC with a mux will always be noisier than a standalone ADC, because the transistors from the MUX are noise sources.



              As far as your amplifier question, again it depends on what the requirements for the project is. But there will be better control over how much noise is in your circuit if you use analog amplifiers, it will also cost more. The ADC also has many digital filters, so instead of using analog sensors and calculating the bandwidth you can change it with software.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered yesterday









              laptop2d

              23k123175




              23k123175






















                  up vote
                  6
                  down vote













                  This isn't quite an answer, but rather an anecdote.



                  High-bit ADC are quite the nifty thing. Great resolution, along with high dynamic range, take away many signal-chain concerns.



                  I built a system for biopotentials with a 32-bit chip. Signal quality was excellent, as all my calculations told me they would be, with only some minimal amplification and anti-alias filtering. That said, my data was riding on what seemed to be an *enormous" square wave that I didn't notice during my prototyping. It had me quite baffled for a while.



                  Working backward, though, I figured out that the magnitude of the square wave was truly tiny.



                  Eventually, I had the box where this thing lived open, and I noticed serendipitously that when the programmer on microcontroller dev board that I was using wasn't USB-enumerated, that an LED flashed perfectly in time to my mystery square wave. That was making something sag, in the microvolt range, that was just huge in my 32-bit signal. It wasn't present during prototyping, because my on-board programmer was enumerated! Those bastards!!!!! The problem was resolved by removing the current-limiting resistor on the LED.



                  Why was this frustrating? Well, for the first time in my life, I didn't amplify enough for me to actually see the signals I was working with on an oscilloscope!!! I didn't do it, because I didn't have to.



                  I suppose the point is that selecting a 32-bit ADC created a funny opacity in my signal chain that I had to learn about the hard way. This was much like my early experiences with microcontrollers, where you can't just peek inside and know what's happening.



                  Long story short, high-bit ADCs are a valuable tool that makes analog design a breeze. That said, they're a tool, like any other, and the learning curve can be a challenge. Fortunately, in my case, I managed to ID my issue. I can tell you, I was under some real time pressure, working under subcontract to a medical device company. I was under pretty substantial stress for a few days, until I found my problem. There's a time and a place to start using new tools, and a time and a place for the tried and true.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    up vote
                    6
                    down vote













                    This isn't quite an answer, but rather an anecdote.



                    High-bit ADC are quite the nifty thing. Great resolution, along with high dynamic range, take away many signal-chain concerns.



                    I built a system for biopotentials with a 32-bit chip. Signal quality was excellent, as all my calculations told me they would be, with only some minimal amplification and anti-alias filtering. That said, my data was riding on what seemed to be an *enormous" square wave that I didn't notice during my prototyping. It had me quite baffled for a while.



                    Working backward, though, I figured out that the magnitude of the square wave was truly tiny.



                    Eventually, I had the box where this thing lived open, and I noticed serendipitously that when the programmer on microcontroller dev board that I was using wasn't USB-enumerated, that an LED flashed perfectly in time to my mystery square wave. That was making something sag, in the microvolt range, that was just huge in my 32-bit signal. It wasn't present during prototyping, because my on-board programmer was enumerated! Those bastards!!!!! The problem was resolved by removing the current-limiting resistor on the LED.



                    Why was this frustrating? Well, for the first time in my life, I didn't amplify enough for me to actually see the signals I was working with on an oscilloscope!!! I didn't do it, because I didn't have to.



                    I suppose the point is that selecting a 32-bit ADC created a funny opacity in my signal chain that I had to learn about the hard way. This was much like my early experiences with microcontrollers, where you can't just peek inside and know what's happening.



                    Long story short, high-bit ADCs are a valuable tool that makes analog design a breeze. That said, they're a tool, like any other, and the learning curve can be a challenge. Fortunately, in my case, I managed to ID my issue. I can tell you, I was under some real time pressure, working under subcontract to a medical device company. I was under pretty substantial stress for a few days, until I found my problem. There's a time and a place to start using new tools, and a time and a place for the tried and true.






                    share|improve this answer
























                      up vote
                      6
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      6
                      down vote









                      This isn't quite an answer, but rather an anecdote.



                      High-bit ADC are quite the nifty thing. Great resolution, along with high dynamic range, take away many signal-chain concerns.



                      I built a system for biopotentials with a 32-bit chip. Signal quality was excellent, as all my calculations told me they would be, with only some minimal amplification and anti-alias filtering. That said, my data was riding on what seemed to be an *enormous" square wave that I didn't notice during my prototyping. It had me quite baffled for a while.



                      Working backward, though, I figured out that the magnitude of the square wave was truly tiny.



                      Eventually, I had the box where this thing lived open, and I noticed serendipitously that when the programmer on microcontroller dev board that I was using wasn't USB-enumerated, that an LED flashed perfectly in time to my mystery square wave. That was making something sag, in the microvolt range, that was just huge in my 32-bit signal. It wasn't present during prototyping, because my on-board programmer was enumerated! Those bastards!!!!! The problem was resolved by removing the current-limiting resistor on the LED.



                      Why was this frustrating? Well, for the first time in my life, I didn't amplify enough for me to actually see the signals I was working with on an oscilloscope!!! I didn't do it, because I didn't have to.



                      I suppose the point is that selecting a 32-bit ADC created a funny opacity in my signal chain that I had to learn about the hard way. This was much like my early experiences with microcontrollers, where you can't just peek inside and know what's happening.



                      Long story short, high-bit ADCs are a valuable tool that makes analog design a breeze. That said, they're a tool, like any other, and the learning curve can be a challenge. Fortunately, in my case, I managed to ID my issue. I can tell you, I was under some real time pressure, working under subcontract to a medical device company. I was under pretty substantial stress for a few days, until I found my problem. There's a time and a place to start using new tools, and a time and a place for the tried and true.






                      share|improve this answer














                      This isn't quite an answer, but rather an anecdote.



                      High-bit ADC are quite the nifty thing. Great resolution, along with high dynamic range, take away many signal-chain concerns.



                      I built a system for biopotentials with a 32-bit chip. Signal quality was excellent, as all my calculations told me they would be, with only some minimal amplification and anti-alias filtering. That said, my data was riding on what seemed to be an *enormous" square wave that I didn't notice during my prototyping. It had me quite baffled for a while.



                      Working backward, though, I figured out that the magnitude of the square wave was truly tiny.



                      Eventually, I had the box where this thing lived open, and I noticed serendipitously that when the programmer on microcontroller dev board that I was using wasn't USB-enumerated, that an LED flashed perfectly in time to my mystery square wave. That was making something sag, in the microvolt range, that was just huge in my 32-bit signal. It wasn't present during prototyping, because my on-board programmer was enumerated! Those bastards!!!!! The problem was resolved by removing the current-limiting resistor on the LED.



                      Why was this frustrating? Well, for the first time in my life, I didn't amplify enough for me to actually see the signals I was working with on an oscilloscope!!! I didn't do it, because I didn't have to.



                      I suppose the point is that selecting a 32-bit ADC created a funny opacity in my signal chain that I had to learn about the hard way. This was much like my early experiences with microcontrollers, where you can't just peek inside and know what's happening.



                      Long story short, high-bit ADCs are a valuable tool that makes analog design a breeze. That said, they're a tool, like any other, and the learning curve can be a challenge. Fortunately, in my case, I managed to ID my issue. I can tell you, I was under some real time pressure, working under subcontract to a medical device company. I was under pretty substantial stress for a few days, until I found my problem. There's a time and a place to start using new tools, and a time and a place for the tried and true.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited yesterday

























                      answered yesterday









                      Scott Seidman

                      22k43283




                      22k43283




















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          You are missing a very important consideration on any design of this sort: firmware/software/drivers.



                          Using an existing DAQ card provides you with all of that and allows you to concentrate your resources on the problem itself via high-level abstractions and not on the technical details of the interfacing.



                          Besides, I really doubt you can get your analog noise to a level in which 32 bits or 24 bits would make any difference.






                          share|improve this answer
























                            up vote
                            1
                            down vote













                            You are missing a very important consideration on any design of this sort: firmware/software/drivers.



                            Using an existing DAQ card provides you with all of that and allows you to concentrate your resources on the problem itself via high-level abstractions and not on the technical details of the interfacing.



                            Besides, I really doubt you can get your analog noise to a level in which 32 bits or 24 bits would make any difference.






                            share|improve this answer






















                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              1
                              down vote









                              You are missing a very important consideration on any design of this sort: firmware/software/drivers.



                              Using an existing DAQ card provides you with all of that and allows you to concentrate your resources on the problem itself via high-level abstractions and not on the technical details of the interfacing.



                              Besides, I really doubt you can get your analog noise to a level in which 32 bits or 24 bits would make any difference.






                              share|improve this answer












                              You are missing a very important consideration on any design of this sort: firmware/software/drivers.



                              Using an existing DAQ card provides you with all of that and allows you to concentrate your resources on the problem itself via high-level abstractions and not on the technical details of the interfacing.



                              Besides, I really doubt you can get your analog noise to a level in which 32 bits or 24 bits would make any difference.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered yesterday









                              Edgar Brown

                              78513




                              78513




















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  Years ago I performed silicon evaluation of a 22 bit ADC. I expected to learn, to be surprised, to be puzzled. I was.



                                  1) your hand or face or body emits heat, and silicon junctions CLOSER to the heat source will be warmer; two nearby diodes would drift apart by 500 microvolts, and you'll experience about 60 seconds of settling time to the new offset voltage; given 0.1 meter of copper has 114 seconds of thermal time constant, we can expect heat flows to be a constant problem; I'd designed those 2 diodes onto the Eval PCB, to examine the heating by my face; one diode partially shaded the other diode, to ensure a heat flux difference.



                                  2) dielectric absorption of capacitors showed up; input filtering using RC lowpass, to explore the ADC's noise floor, showed 2 or 3 minutes of settling; when shorted briefly then opened up, nearly a millivolt of stored charge would slowly appear



                                  3) the resistance of 1 ounce/foot^2 copper foil is 0.000500 ohms per square, for any size square; 1milliAmp thru a square will generate 500 microVolts of error; plan on using Finite_element modeling to design your PCBS at the 32 bit level.



                                  4) 1 amp of 60Hz pure sinusoid (no spikes) at 1 meter from 10cm by 1cm loop, will induce this voltage onto your PCB



                                  Vinduce = 2e-7 * Area/Distance * dI/dT



                                  Vinduce = 2e-7 *10cm*1cm/1meter * 377



                                  Vinduce = 2e-7 * 1e-3 * 377



                                  Vinduce = 1e-10 * 754 = 75 nanoVolts



                                  5) those "quiet" digital interface pins, with either a 1 or a 0 level, are still buzzing with 200 or 500 milliVoltsPP of MCU rail noise; how close can you let a digital interface trace get to the 32-bit signals, given the MCU trash has pseudo-random (program dependent) patterns, and cannot be trusted to "average out" ?






                                  share|improve this answer


























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    Years ago I performed silicon evaluation of a 22 bit ADC. I expected to learn, to be surprised, to be puzzled. I was.



                                    1) your hand or face or body emits heat, and silicon junctions CLOSER to the heat source will be warmer; two nearby diodes would drift apart by 500 microvolts, and you'll experience about 60 seconds of settling time to the new offset voltage; given 0.1 meter of copper has 114 seconds of thermal time constant, we can expect heat flows to be a constant problem; I'd designed those 2 diodes onto the Eval PCB, to examine the heating by my face; one diode partially shaded the other diode, to ensure a heat flux difference.



                                    2) dielectric absorption of capacitors showed up; input filtering using RC lowpass, to explore the ADC's noise floor, showed 2 or 3 minutes of settling; when shorted briefly then opened up, nearly a millivolt of stored charge would slowly appear



                                    3) the resistance of 1 ounce/foot^2 copper foil is 0.000500 ohms per square, for any size square; 1milliAmp thru a square will generate 500 microVolts of error; plan on using Finite_element modeling to design your PCBS at the 32 bit level.



                                    4) 1 amp of 60Hz pure sinusoid (no spikes) at 1 meter from 10cm by 1cm loop, will induce this voltage onto your PCB



                                    Vinduce = 2e-7 * Area/Distance * dI/dT



                                    Vinduce = 2e-7 *10cm*1cm/1meter * 377



                                    Vinduce = 2e-7 * 1e-3 * 377



                                    Vinduce = 1e-10 * 754 = 75 nanoVolts



                                    5) those "quiet" digital interface pins, with either a 1 or a 0 level, are still buzzing with 200 or 500 milliVoltsPP of MCU rail noise; how close can you let a digital interface trace get to the 32-bit signals, given the MCU trash has pseudo-random (program dependent) patterns, and cannot be trusted to "average out" ?






                                    share|improve this answer
























                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      Years ago I performed silicon evaluation of a 22 bit ADC. I expected to learn, to be surprised, to be puzzled. I was.



                                      1) your hand or face or body emits heat, and silicon junctions CLOSER to the heat source will be warmer; two nearby diodes would drift apart by 500 microvolts, and you'll experience about 60 seconds of settling time to the new offset voltage; given 0.1 meter of copper has 114 seconds of thermal time constant, we can expect heat flows to be a constant problem; I'd designed those 2 diodes onto the Eval PCB, to examine the heating by my face; one diode partially shaded the other diode, to ensure a heat flux difference.



                                      2) dielectric absorption of capacitors showed up; input filtering using RC lowpass, to explore the ADC's noise floor, showed 2 or 3 minutes of settling; when shorted briefly then opened up, nearly a millivolt of stored charge would slowly appear



                                      3) the resistance of 1 ounce/foot^2 copper foil is 0.000500 ohms per square, for any size square; 1milliAmp thru a square will generate 500 microVolts of error; plan on using Finite_element modeling to design your PCBS at the 32 bit level.



                                      4) 1 amp of 60Hz pure sinusoid (no spikes) at 1 meter from 10cm by 1cm loop, will induce this voltage onto your PCB



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 * Area/Distance * dI/dT



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 *10cm*1cm/1meter * 377



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 * 1e-3 * 377



                                      Vinduce = 1e-10 * 754 = 75 nanoVolts



                                      5) those "quiet" digital interface pins, with either a 1 or a 0 level, are still buzzing with 200 or 500 milliVoltsPP of MCU rail noise; how close can you let a digital interface trace get to the 32-bit signals, given the MCU trash has pseudo-random (program dependent) patterns, and cannot be trusted to "average out" ?






                                      share|improve this answer














                                      Years ago I performed silicon evaluation of a 22 bit ADC. I expected to learn, to be surprised, to be puzzled. I was.



                                      1) your hand or face or body emits heat, and silicon junctions CLOSER to the heat source will be warmer; two nearby diodes would drift apart by 500 microvolts, and you'll experience about 60 seconds of settling time to the new offset voltage; given 0.1 meter of copper has 114 seconds of thermal time constant, we can expect heat flows to be a constant problem; I'd designed those 2 diodes onto the Eval PCB, to examine the heating by my face; one diode partially shaded the other diode, to ensure a heat flux difference.



                                      2) dielectric absorption of capacitors showed up; input filtering using RC lowpass, to explore the ADC's noise floor, showed 2 or 3 minutes of settling; when shorted briefly then opened up, nearly a millivolt of stored charge would slowly appear



                                      3) the resistance of 1 ounce/foot^2 copper foil is 0.000500 ohms per square, for any size square; 1milliAmp thru a square will generate 500 microVolts of error; plan on using Finite_element modeling to design your PCBS at the 32 bit level.



                                      4) 1 amp of 60Hz pure sinusoid (no spikes) at 1 meter from 10cm by 1cm loop, will induce this voltage onto your PCB



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 * Area/Distance * dI/dT



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 *10cm*1cm/1meter * 377



                                      Vinduce = 2e-7 * 1e-3 * 377



                                      Vinduce = 1e-10 * 754 = 75 nanoVolts



                                      5) those "quiet" digital interface pins, with either a 1 or a 0 level, are still buzzing with 200 or 500 milliVoltsPP of MCU rail noise; how close can you let a digital interface trace get to the 32-bit signals, given the MCU trash has pseudo-random (program dependent) patterns, and cannot be trusted to "average out" ?







                                      share|improve this answer














                                      share|improve this answer



                                      share|improve this answer








                                      edited 22 hours ago

























                                      answered 22 hours ago









                                      analogsystemsrf

                                      12.3k2616




                                      12.3k2616




















                                          Mark Moser is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









                                           

                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded


















                                          Mark Moser is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












                                          Mark Moser is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











                                          Mark Moser is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.













                                           


                                          draft saved


                                          draft discarded














                                          StackExchange.ready(
                                          function ()
                                          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f405934%2fhigh-resolution-adc-vs-amplifiers%23new-answer', 'question_page');

                                          );

                                          Post as a guest














































































                                          這個網誌中的熱門文章

                                          Barbados

                                          How to read a connectionString WITH PROVIDER in .NET Core?

                                          Node.js Script on GitHub Pages or Amazon S3