Which is really immutable in redux data or state or both?









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I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a modified data after dispatching a certain action.



This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??



const reducer = (state = , action) => 





Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array or the data that dispatched after fetching???



I need some clarification about this confusing part???










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    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a modified data after dispatching a certain action.



    This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??



    const reducer = (state = , action) => 





    Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array or the data that dispatched after fetching???



    I need some clarification about this confusing part???










    share|improve this question

























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a modified data after dispatching a certain action.



      This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??



      const reducer = (state = , action) => 





      Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array or the data that dispatched after fetching???



      I need some clarification about this confusing part???










      share|improve this question















      I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a modified data after dispatching a certain action.



      This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??



      const reducer = (state = , action) => 





      Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array or the data that dispatched after fetching???



      I need some clarification about this confusing part???







      reactjs redux






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Nov 10 at 18:17

























      asked Nov 10 at 18:11









      Saher Elgendy

      476




      476






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted










          The redux state itself is not immutable but it is composed from immutable data structures. Saying that state is immutable is not correct.



          The whole point of a data structure being immutable is that you never mutate it. When speaking about arrays, mutating means adding, removing or setting values (e.g. push, shift, splice etc). Therefore, to change a value, you always have to create a new array (instead of mutating the existing array).



          For example:



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          return [...state, addedValue];



          not



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          state.push(addedValue);
          return state;



          In this sense both the previous state and the new state (the returned value) are both immutable data structures.



          To explain the concept of timewalking mentioned in comments, first we suppose there is some redux state in some variable:



          let state = /* redux state */


          Whenever an action is triggered, all reducers run recursively to create a new state. The whole concept in Redux is expressed by something like this:



          let oldState = state;
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          The concept of timewalking means that we do something like this:



          const stateHistory = ;
          stateHistory.push(state)
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          This way our stateHistory variable contains the complete previous state. To timewalk, we can simply:



          state = stateHistory[index];


          and rerender.



          However, this wouldn't work without immutable data structures. Immutable data structures ensure that all states in history are independent and mutating one won't affect the rest.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 22:02











          • @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:04











          • I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:06






          • 1




            @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:19






          • 1




            With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 23:13

















          up vote
          1
          down vote














          I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while
          logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a
          modified data after dispatching a certain action.




          This is true.




          This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable
          in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial
          data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??




          State as an argument of the reducer refers to the actual state. If it's the first time calling the reducer, then state will be initialized with the default value, in this case . This feature is called Default parameters.




          Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array
          or the data that dispatched after fetching???




          Redux requires to write reducers as pure functions so that the state modifications are handled exclusively by Redux.



          For more information please refer to Reducer's documentation.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 19:53







          • 1




            State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
            – Joaquin Timerman
            Nov 10 at 20:09










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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes








          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted










          The redux state itself is not immutable but it is composed from immutable data structures. Saying that state is immutable is not correct.



          The whole point of a data structure being immutable is that you never mutate it. When speaking about arrays, mutating means adding, removing or setting values (e.g. push, shift, splice etc). Therefore, to change a value, you always have to create a new array (instead of mutating the existing array).



          For example:



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          return [...state, addedValue];



          not



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          state.push(addedValue);
          return state;



          In this sense both the previous state and the new state (the returned value) are both immutable data structures.



          To explain the concept of timewalking mentioned in comments, first we suppose there is some redux state in some variable:



          let state = /* redux state */


          Whenever an action is triggered, all reducers run recursively to create a new state. The whole concept in Redux is expressed by something like this:



          let oldState = state;
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          The concept of timewalking means that we do something like this:



          const stateHistory = ;
          stateHistory.push(state)
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          This way our stateHistory variable contains the complete previous state. To timewalk, we can simply:



          state = stateHistory[index];


          and rerender.



          However, this wouldn't work without immutable data structures. Immutable data structures ensure that all states in history are independent and mutating one won't affect the rest.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 22:02











          • @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:04











          • I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:06






          • 1




            @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:19






          • 1




            With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 23:13














          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted










          The redux state itself is not immutable but it is composed from immutable data structures. Saying that state is immutable is not correct.



          The whole point of a data structure being immutable is that you never mutate it. When speaking about arrays, mutating means adding, removing or setting values (e.g. push, shift, splice etc). Therefore, to change a value, you always have to create a new array (instead of mutating the existing array).



          For example:



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          return [...state, addedValue];



          not



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          state.push(addedValue);
          return state;



          In this sense both the previous state and the new state (the returned value) are both immutable data structures.



          To explain the concept of timewalking mentioned in comments, first we suppose there is some redux state in some variable:



          let state = /* redux state */


          Whenever an action is triggered, all reducers run recursively to create a new state. The whole concept in Redux is expressed by something like this:



          let oldState = state;
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          The concept of timewalking means that we do something like this:



          const stateHistory = ;
          stateHistory.push(state)
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          This way our stateHistory variable contains the complete previous state. To timewalk, we can simply:



          state = stateHistory[index];


          and rerender.



          However, this wouldn't work without immutable data structures. Immutable data structures ensure that all states in history are independent and mutating one won't affect the rest.






          share|improve this answer






















          • Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 22:02











          • @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:04











          • I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:06






          • 1




            @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:19






          • 1




            With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 23:13












          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted






          The redux state itself is not immutable but it is composed from immutable data structures. Saying that state is immutable is not correct.



          The whole point of a data structure being immutable is that you never mutate it. When speaking about arrays, mutating means adding, removing or setting values (e.g. push, shift, splice etc). Therefore, to change a value, you always have to create a new array (instead of mutating the existing array).



          For example:



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          return [...state, addedValue];



          not



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          state.push(addedValue);
          return state;



          In this sense both the previous state and the new state (the returned value) are both immutable data structures.



          To explain the concept of timewalking mentioned in comments, first we suppose there is some redux state in some variable:



          let state = /* redux state */


          Whenever an action is triggered, all reducers run recursively to create a new state. The whole concept in Redux is expressed by something like this:



          let oldState = state;
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          The concept of timewalking means that we do something like this:



          const stateHistory = ;
          stateHistory.push(state)
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          This way our stateHistory variable contains the complete previous state. To timewalk, we can simply:



          state = stateHistory[index];


          and rerender.



          However, this wouldn't work without immutable data structures. Immutable data structures ensure that all states in history are independent and mutating one won't affect the rest.






          share|improve this answer














          The redux state itself is not immutable but it is composed from immutable data structures. Saying that state is immutable is not correct.



          The whole point of a data structure being immutable is that you never mutate it. When speaking about arrays, mutating means adding, removing or setting values (e.g. push, shift, splice etc). Therefore, to change a value, you always have to create a new array (instead of mutating the existing array).



          For example:



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          return [...state, addedValue];



          not



          const reducer = (state = , action) => 
          const addedValue = action.payload.addedValue;
          state.push(addedValue);
          return state;



          In this sense both the previous state and the new state (the returned value) are both immutable data structures.



          To explain the concept of timewalking mentioned in comments, first we suppose there is some redux state in some variable:



          let state = /* redux state */


          Whenever an action is triggered, all reducers run recursively to create a new state. The whole concept in Redux is expressed by something like this:



          let oldState = state;
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          The concept of timewalking means that we do something like this:



          const stateHistory = ;
          stateHistory.push(state)
          state = reducers(oldState, action);


          This way our stateHistory variable contains the complete previous state. To timewalk, we can simply:



          state = stateHistory[index];


          and rerender.



          However, this wouldn't work without immutable data structures. Immutable data structures ensure that all states in history are independent and mutating one won't affect the rest.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Nov 11 at 8:50

























          answered Nov 10 at 21:56









          Sulthan

          92.5k16148196




          92.5k16148196











          • Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 22:02











          • @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:04











          • I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:06






          • 1




            @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:19






          • 1




            With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 23:13
















          • Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 22:02











          • @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:04











          • I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:06






          • 1




            @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 22:19






          • 1




            With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
            – Sulthan
            Nov 10 at 23:13















          Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
          – Saher Elgendy
          Nov 10 at 22:02





          Thanks , i understand all of that, but if the initial state is an empty array so our non-mutated original state would be an empty array, what is the point then to store an empty array??
          – Saher Elgendy
          Nov 10 at 22:02













          @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:04





          @SaherElgendy Empty array is better than null or undefined because your app won't crash when you try to read its length or index it. That's the concept of prefering non-optional variables over optional variables (variables that can be null). The reason to use an empty array is specific to a given use case.
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:04













          I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:06




          I think I don't understand you question then. An empty array is a valid value describing the situation when there are no items?
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:06




          1




          1




          @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:19




          @SaherElgendy Using only immutable structures in state (which is a bit awkward in pure JS) has some very positive implications. For example, when checking whether a part of the state has changed, you can simply use === (object equality). And that makes rerenders very fast because only the actually changed parts will have to rerendered (see PureComponent).
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 22:19




          1




          1




          With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 23:13




          With immutable state you can hold state history in memory. With mutable states changing the state would destroy saved history. If you dont see it, try to implement it.
          – Sulthan
          Nov 10 at 23:13












          up vote
          1
          down vote














          I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while
          logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a
          modified data after dispatching a certain action.




          This is true.




          This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable
          in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial
          data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??




          State as an argument of the reducer refers to the actual state. If it's the first time calling the reducer, then state will be initialized with the default value, in this case . This feature is called Default parameters.




          Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array
          or the data that dispatched after fetching???




          Redux requires to write reducers as pure functions so that the state modifications are handled exclusively by Redux.



          For more information please refer to Reducer's documentation.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 19:53







          • 1




            State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
            – Joaquin Timerman
            Nov 10 at 20:09














          up vote
          1
          down vote














          I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while
          logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a
          modified data after dispatching a certain action.




          This is true.




          This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable
          in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial
          data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??




          State as an argument of the reducer refers to the actual state. If it's the first time calling the reducer, then state will be initialized with the default value, in this case . This feature is called Default parameters.




          Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array
          or the data that dispatched after fetching???




          Redux requires to write reducers as pure functions so that the state modifications are handled exclusively by Redux.



          For more information please refer to Reducer's documentation.






          share|improve this answer




















          • Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 19:53







          • 1




            State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
            – Joaquin Timerman
            Nov 10 at 20:09












          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote










          I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while
          logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a
          modified data after dispatching a certain action.




          This is true.




          This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable
          in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial
          data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??




          State as an argument of the reducer refers to the actual state. If it's the first time calling the reducer, then state will be initialized with the default value, in this case . This feature is called Default parameters.




          Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array
          or the data that dispatched after fetching???




          Redux requires to write reducers as pure functions so that the state modifications are handled exclusively by Redux.



          For more information please refer to Reducer's documentation.






          share|improve this answer













          I always read that state in redux is and should be immutable, while
          logging store.getState() will return the state which may represent a
          modified data after dispatching a certain action.




          This is true.




          This part is confusing to me, how we can consider state is immutable
          in this case, do state here refer to the original data or the initial
          data that passed as the first argument to the reducer??




          State as an argument of the reducer refers to the actual state. If it's the first time calling the reducer, then state will be initialized with the default value, in this case . This feature is called Default parameters.




          Is the immutable state here the initial state which is an empty array
          or the data that dispatched after fetching???




          Redux requires to write reducers as pure functions so that the state modifications are handled exclusively by Redux.



          For more information please refer to Reducer's documentation.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Nov 10 at 18:53









          Joaquin Timerman

          1264




          1264











          • Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 19:53







          • 1




            State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
            – Joaquin Timerman
            Nov 10 at 20:09
















          • Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
            – Saher Elgendy
            Nov 10 at 19:53







          • 1




            State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
            – Joaquin Timerman
            Nov 10 at 20:09















          Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
          – Saher Elgendy
          Nov 10 at 19:53





          Thank you but this does not answer anything, i know that state would be what is returned from the reducer after a certain action, otherwise the default one will be returned, so our state data seems changing so from where come this fact " state in redux is immutable"
          – Saher Elgendy
          Nov 10 at 19:53





          1




          1




          State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
          – Joaquin Timerman
          Nov 10 at 20:09




          State should not be mutated by your code, it's modification is handled purely by Redux. Therefore it is said that state is immutable.
          – Joaquin Timerman
          Nov 10 at 20:09

















           

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